Welcome to SkiAll6.com

I received a Z Box and a Star Gazer today. I would like to first say that the people at Perfect Pass are still just as nice as they have always been from when I bought my first system from them in their beginning.

My installation involved more than someone simply upgrading their Star Gazer because I had the original Classic. I simply removed my old system along with my single line display, popped in the new display and plugged in the new system. I upgraded the software which was simply removing four screws and plugging in the memory stick. I then entered my baseline RPMs and mapped the course by pushing two buttons. It is that simple.

Now for the real test: I put my ski on and away we went. The first thing I noticed after the boat got up to speed was the boat felt slow. The gates felt slow and at each buoy the boat felt slow. That is just how I remember the ZO boat at the tournament I skied in last year. I ran through 12m/35off, and really felt my timing issue when I cut to 12m. I dropped back down to 13m/32off and worked on my timing with the new system. I then cut back to 12m and was able to run it a little smoother. All the passes were either 16.95 or 16.96 despite my inconsistent skiing.

My assessment is; if you have an older boat and want to have a pull like the tournament skiers get, this new system will deliver. And, if you are going to ski any tournaments, practicing behind an older boat with a Z Box, might be just as good as practicing behind a boat with Zero Off.

Perfect Pass has included adjustable parameters to allow an individual to adjust the A1 – C3 settings to account for boats with lower horse power, different transmissions and props to make the pulls from these boats feel like the newer boats. To see click PDF.

I will do a split screen of skiing with the Classic and Z Box shortly and post it.

P.S. My wife’s assessment is; “It sure is nice not having to adjust at each end.”

Sounds cool Bud. Is it possible for you to ski behind ZB and then ZO to give us your impressions on how they compare?

What boat/engine are you using it on?

I have a '99 SN GT40 with PP Classic, so I believe I would need to do exactly as you did.

I love my boat, it runs great and has awesome wakes, and looks like new, so I have been fretting over selling it and going with a 2009 or something pre-2010 with ZO.

Here is a split screen with PP Classic set at KX++ and PX 50 on top and my first set on the Star Gazer w/ Z Box on bottom set at B2.

My Master Craft has a LT1, 5.7 Litres, Power Slot transmission and standard 3 blade prop.

No ZO boat around here AB.

Even though this video is for comparing the two systems, please feel free to tell me what I need to do to improve. Thank you in advance. I will post it in the coaching area for comments, so this thread can stay on the Z Box topic.

Since you are using the Mechanical "servo" type engine, I'm curious how fast does the Z box/servo react? Is it as fast as the drive-by-wire version, or is there any delay?

Also, can you post a video with the AUDIO, so we can hear the revving of the engine?

Thanks.

Dan,

When I came out of the buoys, it felt solid. When I was in my leverage position, it felt like solid. I never felt the give and take that I felt with PP Classic. The pull felt like I remembered the pull I got behind ZO.

Here is the audio version you asked for.

Thanks, Bud, for posting that audio. It sounds VERY MUCH like ZO to me.

Also, would you post the audio from your PP KX++ and PX 50? I understand that those settings were the best you were able to "simulate" ZO (w/o the Z Box). It will be interesting to compare the difference between the audio of the Z box, and the audio from "altered" PP.

Dan,

Here is the audio of the pass with PP Classic KX++ and PX 50.

When I was trying to mess with the Classic, settings, I sent a question to Perfect Pass about the switch settings. They replied with: “The PX was never originally designed to be above 15, so it wasn't tested.”

I should also add that I tweaked my slalom switch to be more sensitive. In other words; come on with less load from the skier.

I would like to know what everyone else hears when comparing these two videos, but I think I hear the Z Box sounding like it is adding RPM sooner and then reducing them sooner.

Bud,

I agree. Z-box is adding the RPM sooner and releasing sooner. PerfectPass seems to hold the accleration much closer to your next turn.

What Z-box settings (other than B2) have you tried? I use C3 frequently and so does my ski partner. I have ZO and he doesn't, but it would be great if he could get Z-box with a solid C3 feel. His boat is a 99 Malibu Response LX with mechanical throttle. So, it is great that your boat is also mechanical throttle. That is the responsiveness that everyone I've talked to was concerned with.

MISkier,
I like your avatar. I hope you will post some videos and use the coaching here at SkiAll6. I think we all learn from the tips of others. I think the spray coming off of a ski tells a lot. The spray in your avatar is smooth going into and out of the buoy. Mine is not. I try to get smoother, but it is a constant work in progress.

Today was just my second set behind the Z Box. I have only tried B2. More than likely, I will leave it there and adjust my skiing to fit that setting. That should give me a lot of room to adjust at a tournament. I could easily change my mind though.

The two things I hope to gain from the Z Box are:
1) A consistent pull every time in practice.
2) Get a similar pull in a tournament that I get in practice.

I only have some older 15 off and 22 off video that I believe you have seen before on TheWaterSkiForum. I need to take some video this season and post again, particularly for 28 off and 32 off. I am inconsistent at running 28 off and have not gotten beyond 4 at 32 off. I have no video of either at all. I can post the older stuff, but I think my real need is for my 28 and 32 gates. That is what I want to capture and work on this season. I will get something when we are skiing again. Will be a while.

I like this site. Are you the creator of the site?

MISkier,

Thank you.

I guess I just listened to what people said they wanted, and I am still listening. So in a way, it is the water skiers who have created this site. I hope this website might help in some way to grow our great sport.

Could you please email me I have a couple questions I need to ask you thanks so much. This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

This message was for ab sorry in regard to his sg and 1999 sport. ThAnks
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

what year boat did you install the Z box on?

1997

one last question, what boat do you have Naut, Master or Malibu

MasterCraft

Update on Z Box after 9 sets.

After skiing behind my Z Box for 9 sets and 3 different drivers, I want to share what I have noticed.

I weigh only about 137lbs right now and started using the normal setting. According to the manual, Normal is for skiers between 160lbs and 200lbs. I believe this setting has always been available with Star Gazer. Most of the pass times were 16.97. The next most common time was 16.96. I did get some 16.98s and a few 16.95s.

I switched to heavy skier and then got 16.95 almost every single time. I did get 16.94 possibly 2 times. I should also say that I am skiing with a baggy dry suit which probably adds drag to the boat.

Another interesting thing to be aware of: My lake is about 2000+ feet long, and we drop and get up at the far ends. (we do not spin) One of my drivers noticed that if the throttle is pushed and left too far down, the boat seemed to excessively rev throughout the course. I also felt this as the skier. The first thing I noticed was the feeling of the boat slowing down at the 55’s, then I felt like I had too much speed to turn in for the gates, and then the whole pass felt like the boat was hitting me hard and out of sync.

The driver then tried less throttle, and everything felt fine for him (the driver) and me (the skier). In looking at the plastic quick reference card that comes with Star Gazer, they have driving tips. Tip #3 is “Do not advance throttle after engagement beep”.

Perfect Pass also has on their IMPORTANT USER INFO/F.A.Q. publication: “Ideally, throttle up smoothly until you hear the beep. There is no need to advance the handle any further. On mechanical boats with servo motors, if you advance the throttle well past the engagement point the system has a lot of work to do to slow down and settle in. If your boat is under powered and you need excessive throttle to get the skier up, feather the handle back as the boat comes on plane. The less the servo needs to work the faster the engagement and the times will be better balanced.”

So in summary, too much throttle is not good, but with less throttle, I’m not completely sure the boat is up to 34.2mph when it gets to the 55s.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

This is very similar to regular PP, you have to back off on the throttle a little so it wont come in hot. What line lengths are you running? have you had some bigger skier get good times as well. I am about 190 and was curious if other skiers are getting close to actual and compare the pull to ZO on newer boats

Goode9700,
I have been trying to get use to the new pull and have not cut to 11.25m yet. Basically ski multiple 13m and 12m.

so would you say it feels like ZO from a newer boat? in a tournament you dont have time to get use to the pull so little concerned. I have PP and get to a tournament and it feels better. would you say the 32 and 35 are feeling better than before? I believe that was your earlier comment. I am thinking of selling my boat so really excited to hear that I may have an option to keep it. Where are you skiing at this time of year?

Bud,
How much did your new system cost and how long did it take to install ?

Bob

Goode9700,
I live and ski in the center of South Carolina. You are welcome to come try it for a few days. I am close to the airport if you fly here, or you can drive, if you are close enough. There are motels just down the road, and you can ski until your heart’s content.

I skied the one tournament last year, which was my first real experience with ZO. I only ran my top pass once out of four attempts. The other rounds I got 2.5, 2.5 and 3 buoys of that top pass. I was expecting different results, because at that time I was not missing that pass off the dock in practice.

My skiing is a constant evolution, so I think it feels like ZO, but it is possible my skiing has changed.

Bob Morris,
Star Gazer + Multi line display + Z Box + Shipping = $1,064.00
Almost no time. Super simple and just a matter of minutes.

Bud, I'm old school and turn hard at the buoy. I can do this behind Perfect Pass Classic, but I hear from everyone that Zero Off and Zbox will be tougher to ski. Is this true?

Do Zero Off and Zbox force you to ski different? I hear that the better way to ski these new speed controls is to be your fastest at the second wake so your speed can take you all the way around the buoy and in essence take the hit from the boat farther away from the turn.

It's going to be hard to change styles after all these years and I'm not really sure I want to.

I am old school and love ZO, I slam dunk my turns, not very smooth and practice with PP and have been wanting a new boat for ZO pulls. I hope the zbox is the answer. I run 35 off in practice but the passes are easier in a tournament or when I get behind a ZO boat. You just need to try a few letters and sse what works, I have found B1 or B2 are very good pulls, but C3 i did not likc.

get a few practice sets behiind a zo boat or zbox, I love the pulls. you will not have to change styles.

Is it possible to use Stargazer in RPM mode like PP for use on river (current)?

Yes, my stargazer has a "classic" (rpm) mode.

Why would you need RPM mode for river current? StarGAZER and ZO would measure (or correct) speed with GPS. So, they should not be affected by current - like you might be with a paddle wheel.

Golson,
In reference to your #298 post above.
I don’t think it has to be true. In theory ZO pulls equally as hard as you pull. Many people probably use this to their advantage. I think Ed Johnson could chime in here.
I think a skier will need to ski somewhat differently to get use to ZO. I believe that it is easier to ski PP for people that are used to ZO, than it is for people that are use to PP to have a new experience with ZO. To me, ZO and Z Box keep the boat at a more constant SLOW speed. I feel that PP Classic has the boat going faster and depending on the skier to pull it down to a slower speed. Therefore, if might feel softer, because it might be more of a see-saw type pull.
Golson, you might be surprised how quickly you get use to it, and become more trusting with a more consistent pull, and then you might just start upping your PBs.

Jas,
Watch this video. It covers the different modes. www.skiall6.com/2012-01-24-03-48-51/2012...he-stargazer-3-event
It would seem that Running in Classic mode with Head/Tail would work well in a current.


MISkier,
Skiing in a 10mph current with GPS would essentially be like skiing 44.2mph water speed in one direction and 24.2mph water speed in the other. A paddle wheel would give an accurate water speed.

I would love to hear from Corey Humburg and Chris Rossi what it feels like. Are both of you going to the Moomba Masters coming up in March?