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TOPIC: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale

Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 5 months ago #9307

**Warning: Long and wordy post below.


I sent the email below to Bud last December. It went out into cyber land and just recently returned. I chose to email him and not post in the forum because you guys could get bored hearing about me having the same problems over and over (see discussion on Vapor sizing). Well, maybe some of you have words of encouragement or would like to travel with me on my Quest to get down -28. So, hear goes…


Bud,
I find it very interesting that you think the ’15 Vapor is faster than a T3. For me, at my skill level, I found the 66” 2015 Vapor to be too fast. I posted a discussion about this on Skiall6. I am glad you think the T3 is slower, maybe it will work for me.

Did you find the T3 stable? I am looking for a ski that is forgiving to weight distribution going into the turn. Sometimes I stand up a little too tall (legs too straight) at the beginning of the turn and the ’15 Vapor would overturn. I am looking for a ski that rolls on edge easy and makes a consistent arc without over turning.

With the 66” 2015 Vapor felling too fast going into my offside turn (RFF) I decided to try a 65” 2016 Vapor. I got the 2016 in August and instantly it felt great and I started running -15/34mph again. The offside turns are smooth and consistent, better than any other ski I have tried. Now for the down side, for my onside I have to be perfect or the 65” Vapor will overturn (maybe a setting change would help). This has me in a dilemma; do I try a 66” 2016 vapor? Would I have the same problem as the 2015 (being too fast on the offside)? My thought is that the 2016 is a more refined shape and more forgiving than the 2015.

Hope I was not jumping around too much. What are your thoughts about 2016 66” Vapor vs. 66” T3?

I am 40ish years old, 140 lb, 5’ 11”, max speed 34mph, I ski the course 50% of the time, my PB is 2 @ -28/34.

Thank you,
Billy



Update: October 2016
I emailed Chris Rossi about the 65” overturning Onside. He said, try front boot 1/8 forward to engage the tip of the ski more. The season ended and I did not get to try this.


Update: March 2017
Fast forward to March, 2017; I started talking & emailing to the folks at Radar. I asked if a Graphite Vapor would be good down 28 off. They said, “Sure, it may feel a little slower behind the boat but is more forgiving than the Lithium.”

Slower should not be a problem. I am making an assumption that, being at the low end of the weight range for a 66” it may not feel slower to me. Also, I may like a slower approach to the ball.
Note: I have heard that “slower can refer to how a ski feels and not actual speed from ball to ball, but a slower ski feeling like more work and physical effort.

“Bang” pulled the trigger on a 2016 Vapor Graphite 66”. I can’t wait to get this stick on the water. I just know I am going to love it!!! (Oh, I thought that about the 2015.)

Question: Do I try the Radar Sequence plate on the new ski? Will that be an extra variable that I should avoid for now?

My reason to try the Sequence plate is to be able to quickly move bindings from ski to ski if needed (vapor 65, vapor 66, T3 66). I have read that some people use all the spacers, some take out the front spacers so the ski will not over flex and some don’t use any spacers.

I will still be running my same Vapor front boot and RTP. What do you guys think?

Thanks!
Billy
The following user(s) said Thank You: TravisTorley

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 5 months ago #9309

Sounds like you have a lot of really exciting stuff for this summer. Keep us updated!
The most important thing is to have fun.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 5 months ago #9311

  • BudDavis
  • OFFLINE
  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Thank you for your post. I am eager to hear more.

Here are some test done with the plate.

www.skiall6.com/forum/8-equipment-talk/9...change-your-ski#9031

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9335

I got on the 66" Vapor Graphite yesterday for my fist day of the season. It was definitely my best opening day.

The ski was easy to snap a tight Onside. The Offside was good, not as great as the 65. This was only my first day of the season on the water so I am sure as I get in ski shape it will get better.

My coach recommended; just a little more pressure on the ball of the front foot to get the tip of the ski to come under the line on the Offside.

I will keep you posted on the progress.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9336

Oh... I am still running a Vapor front boot with standard plates & RTP. Still thinking about trying the sequence plant but no reason to rush it this early in the season.

Opening sets went something like this:
set 1. -15 at 30mph/32mph/32mph/33mph/33mph/33mph/4@34/5@34mph
set 2. -15 at 30mph/32mph/33mph/3@34/2@34/5@34/34/5@-22 34mph!!

For me to run -15/34 and get 5@-22 on the firs day is a big deal for me.
The following user(s) said Thank You: TravisTorley

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9337

Nice job Billy. You're gonna be at that 28 in no time. I'm gonna set 28 as my goal as well. You inspired me.

Hey I just ordered a 66" Vapor Alloy for my daughter today. 2016.

Btw...28 is a long way away for me.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9340

  • BudDavis
  • OFFLINE
  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Billy.

That is great and inspires me.

Do not forget free video coaching here.

Post some videos and let these guys help you like the have helped me.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9343

Bud,
I was just 2 or 3 ft. inside of 6 ball at -22.

Once the water warms up it's gonna be a great year.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9350

for those of us who are still working with the 22 and 28 off runs, one of the biggest issues that I have seen through the years is not finishing or off-site turns. the easiest way to spot this in pictures is to look for your outside hand reaching out for the rope. You'll notice we don't tend to do that much on our on side turn. The pattern that I tend to fall into personally being a right foot forward to skier is pulled through the gate with my own side pull going into one ball hot. Have a poor one ball turn leading to me being down course and late on my pull. Slam a fabulous onside turn for 2 ball hooking up early and slingshot in for 3 ball. being pulled up out of position and off edge by about the center of the wake and ending up skiing flat and after wait to get past3 ball and granny turn it. when I reach for the rope to start the pull. The turn is done leading me to be firing straight at four ball. a great turn on for ball and repeat 3 ball at 5. And not make 6.

The actual solution to this is a more progressive pull through the gates holding more angle and less speed into one ball. Arriving early and wide and own edge. back siding one ball. Hold your turn longer and have better cross course angle toward 2 ball. Arriving at 2 ball earlier setting you up for a nice clean progressive turn, instead of hook, which sets you up for a nice easy firm pool across to 3 ball early again and continue this through each progressive pass. when done correctly, it is so much easier on the body. It is unreal.

One other thing to realize that I didn't realize until someone brought it up is when you ski where'd you get sore. You get sore in the muscles that you use. If you're actually leaning and pulling. You should be sore up in the upper traps, not between your shoulder blades. If you're down between your shoulder blades, then you are standing up and trying to hold the rope in from upright position. If you are actually leaning away from the boat. The force goes further and further up the spine and if done correctly, is almost a shoulder shrug.

Those of us still struggling with the longer line lengths are usually there for at least one or both of these reasons.

Another comment which I heard and makes lots of sense is skiing correctly does not require a lot of strength. the strength is required to recover from skiing poorly. and if you think it through. For a little while this actually does make a lot more sense than you would think right off the bat, specially since we're usually exhausted when we finish a set. light on the line does not mean that you're not pulling hard. It means in a position that pulling hard is easy to do. people always say Nate Smith is light on the line. Talk to him personally sometime and he will tell you he's glad it looks easy. When he's pulling he really is pulling he just in the position to be able to
The following user(s) said Thank You: gsm-peter, BillyM

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9351

  • BudDavis
  • OFFLINE
  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Good stuff Chris.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9352

Chris,
Thanks for the tips. I know -28 is a wall or big hurdle for many skiers. I hope to find out for myself soon. They say you have to have good technique to run 28 off. You can't muscle or hack your way through it like -15&-22.

We'll see how it goes, like every other year I have high expectations!
Billy

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9353

  • RL
  • OFFLINE
Unfortunately, you can muscle or hack your way through 28...and 32...and 35 but it feels like sheet and it's very rough on the body.

Re: Journey to 28 Off, a Vapor tale 2 years, 4 months ago #9356

I will have an update tomorrow, I have two sets scheduled with Corey Vaughn later today.
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