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TOPIC: 39.5off for the third time. (Video)

39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6854

  • BudDavis
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  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
The first time seemed like a fluke.

The second time, I felt like it was just luck.

This is the third time, and I am starting to believe I might be able to learn this pass. But then again, it might be a pass that I need a ton of luck to get through.

I can see a major problem in connecting my turns to my pulls, especially out of two and four.

I would love to hear some suggestions on how to fix it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Dan Birch, AB, SkiJay

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6855

  • Brent
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  • Tryin to swerve through life
Bud

Pushing the handle forward into the 2nd wake (it looks to be too far back on your body) may help you cast out more & smooth out your hook up at the finish of the turn.

I no where as good a skiers as you ,so take my advice with a grain of salt !
The following user(s) said Thank You: BudDavis

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6856

  • LEE
  • OFFLINE
  • So, your sayin' there's a chance!
Nice job Bud!

Not sure about Brent's comment. (With the Black on Black skiwear, it is very difficult to see anything. (Adding a Highly contrasting compression shirt, vest, gloves would help the visual quality immensely...)

I am curious about "pushing the Handle out/forward into the 2nd wake" ...maybe I do not understand the statement, but it seems like "pushing it fwd/away from the body would cause premature/unwanted separation. Wouldn't maintaining a Low and Close anchor point be the goal? Especially off of the 2nd wake into the preturn while casting out?
The following user(s) said Thank You: BudDavis

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6857

  • Brent
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  • Tryin to swerve through life
Lee

Pushing the handle forward is very subtle but & get the edge change happening earlier .

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6858

  • AB
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The score is 6 no matter how it looks or feels! No style points in skiing.

Hard to be critical of a full pass at 39.

My reaction after watching several times - need more aggressive angle into the gate so you can transition sooner for one ball. It seems like you are just a tad later than you could be, but you don't give any ground the rest of the way.

For kicks, try dropping your right hip down further before the white water and hang on, then Transition like the nate question 2 article. Starting the edge change right after the second wake with the ski behind the handle in front of you and on turn edge sooner.

I think the guys running 39 consistently look like they let the handle move behind their COM and then ride the momentum out like a swing would do. Remember as you near the bottom you lean back on a swing and then move forward at the top (turn ball).. I think that is the principle.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BudDavis, MISkier

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6859

  • Brent
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  • Tryin to swerve through life
AB is right about the gate being off a little ,you are pulled flat before passing the right entrance gate ball . You want more angle behind the boat which would mean being more patient on your turn in to develop that angle ,if you take too much angle early ,you get pulled up behind the boat.

Bud

That is really impressive skiing for any conditions but adding the cold water & drysuit to the equation makes it even more impressive.

I look forward to seeing your progress . Did you take a shot at 41off?

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6860

  • BudDavis
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  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Brent,

Thank you. This time I actually did take a shot at 41. I was hoping to add to the one buoy I got the first time in February. I came out of one with determination to get to #2, but could not keep the handle. The pull out of the buoy at 41off is very intense. There is no wonder why only a small few get through that line.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6861

  • AB
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To clarify, I am saying drop your right hip more going into the gate so the hardest "pull" and angle starts just after the white water and before the first wake. That's all the "work" you should need, and rely on this to ride out to one ball. You just need a little more pop after the second wake to cast out for a better one ball and you will be walking through this pass. Great skiing! And driving!

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6862

  • BudDavis
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  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Thank you AB,

I will try to remember to try that hip drop next time.

I actually do not see how I was able to get through that pass when I watch how sorry my angle and late connection out of 2 and 4.

And I also agree with the driving. I can pause the video and look at the boat path through the gate sets and it looks dead on to me.

Thank you Jo!

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6866

  • AB
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Bud,
I have found "attack the wake" a good mantra for my gate. The pullout and glide sort of lull me to sleep so I need to wake up and attack the first wake.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6868

Wow, that looks awfully far back on the boat to be 39!

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6870

  • Brent
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  • Tryin to swerve through life
@skierjp

Look where the rope is on the side of the boat (it is 39.5).

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6873

  • BudDavis
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  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Skierjp,

I am glad you said something. I always question things myself and I think it is a good thing to do.

I have a 0.5m switch section on the pylon and the pink 41off loop out of the rope to make up the correct length. This allows the loop you are skiing to show up on the camera. The pink pigtail is where 41off/10.25m actually is.

The other week after running 39, I checked my rope and it was 1 inch over actual, so I shortened it. This 39, the rope was dead on. I frequently measure my ropes and there are normally dead on. I had a TC survey my course last fall, and he confirmed it was RC.

And of course, ZO is not going to let the boat get out of time. I was running C2, 34.2mph.

Here are some screen captures of where the rope is on the side of my boat when the buoy is at my boot as I ski.

The 41off screen capture is from three days ago. The rest are from today.

28off/14.25m


28off14.25m.PNG



32off/ 13m


32off13m.PNG



35off/12m


35off12m.PNG



38off/11.25m


38off11.25m.PNG



39.5off/10.75m


395off1075m.PNG



41off/10.25m


410ff10.25m.PNG
The following user(s) said Thank You: SkiJay

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6874

Good, I knew a guy that had a rope that somehow was over 2' too long. He had bought new bindings and a rope and was crediting his new success to the bindings. This went on for a few months until someone switched his rope and his score fell by 2 passes. He was very embarrassed.
Usually when pulling skiers at 39 you can easily see them turn the buoy in your perifial vision from the drivers seat. Still photos look awesome.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6875

Look at the distance of the rope forward of the step pads on the ski lockers as the rope gets shorter. I didn't catch that on the video.
Looks awfully cold , you need to come to Central Florida. The air will be 80 today and the water is 69.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BudDavis

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6876

  • BudDavis
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  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Another thing that shows in the freeze frames that I find interesting is the angle of the ski and the rotation of my hips when the buoy is at my boot. At 28off, the ski is almost pointing at the boat, and each step after that shows a difference.

I guess our goal might be to finish the turn at all lines the way the 28off looks.

________________________________________

Skierjp,

My water is now ranging upper 40s to low 50s. Air is all across the chart right now.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6903

  • AB
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Bud, what are your thoughts on dropping your inside hip to initiate angle? Look at this picture below. I can freeze frame more shots of her and Nate, or Jeff, and they all do this right off the ball. I try to correlate this on my gate approach, sometimes okay, others I forget and go back to standing more upright. I have watched your 39 gate over and just can't believe your are running it while standing up going into the wakes. I looked at lots of other pro videos today and nearly everyone of them really get down and away a lot more than you are. I am even more convinced that this would lead you to walking through the pass..


regina2.jpg

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6905

AB,

Great point, you are 100% correct...It is ESSENTIAL to drop the inside hip in to establish the angle..In old school we use to pull the handle in while rotating to, "Load from Wide." With the advent of ZO we can no longer do that and let it know we are there....So, if we can arrive at the apex with hips countered and forward COM, in what I call a Zero G feeling, dropping COM in the direction of desired travel will yield great results..Nate is a Master of this, and I believe a big factor in his success.

About a year a go, Joel Howley was skiing with me for a week, right after the Malibu Open..He called this move "Sitting on the Buoy." He pointed out that you not only drop the hip in, but use a counter rotation while doing it...I have tried and tried, over and over, to do that counter while dropping, and it seems impossible..The best I can do is Slide the inside hip in the direction of travel, and that is a good thing for this old body to do..Joel did it and the results were just like in the photo AB posted above..Great shot AB by the way.

The cool thing is, it happens so quick, your still facing down course, and in your lower vision you will see the ski instantly come around right in front of you..Done right, it almost feels effortless, like it just happened on it's own...Now the key is to keep leading with that COM right to a forward stacked and powerful position, to send the load to ZO.

What happens next would be a whole new thread and I feel we should stay on this subject and get other inputs.........ED
The following user(s) said Thank You: MISkier, TravisTorley

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6907

  • AB
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I read an article by Jeff R years ago that said when he is rocking it, he feels like he is just sitting in the buoys. I tried to emulate this and found I can do it on my onside turn pretty well, and it really does feel like you are sitting on the buiy, and when I do, I rocket out of the turn. The offside is a different story. After taking a few years off, getting out of shape, and skiing limited passes, my offside stinks. I can still rip a pretty good onside turn, but the offside is a fraction of what it was. When done right, it is a fast efficient hook up. The ski literally jumps around the turn.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6908

AB, for the offside, I think that it's a bit difficult for the buoy sit-down because the ski is too easily trapped underneath/behind you. I think that side requires an additional simultaneous action of driving the hip/ski around and under the rope. When, I've done this right, I'm practically accelerating off the buoy before I retake the rope. For the onside, the turn finishes much more naturally/completely without requiring any other input. This has been my experience, anyway.
Goode XT - 65.25" with Wiley double high wraps
2009 Malibu Response LX with Zero Off Rev R - Setting C2

Ranked in the top 50 for US Open Men's slalom

My skiing is like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gonna get.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6909

  • AB
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Bud,

The pic I show of you going into the gate is where I think the biggest change would be. I would try to be dropped lower against the boat and then get ready to soften your knees at the second wake and get in the chair position we have talked about.

The second photo is your finish of one ball, where I think if you drop your left hip down, it might help keep the tip down on the finish, which pops up a lot on both, costing you some downcourse travel.

The third is to drive your right hip more forward going into your offside and allow your chest to point outbound more.

I am not being critical of anyone running 39 in a drysuit, I think you are skiing awesome. Just trying to help from my perspective, for you to achieve easier passes for less strain on your body.


BudGate.PNG


Bud1Turn.PNG


Budgoingto2.PNG

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6913

  • BudDavis
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  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
I agree and appreciate all the great input. I thank all of you.

As for the hip drop on the buoy: I do agree. I actually believe that one move could almost be the Holy Grail. I have worked on it in the past, but I do not seem to be able to do it with any kind of consistency much past 32off. It seems to cause the edge of the ski to cut into the water and stop all loss of ground. It seems to override everything done wrong prior to the turn. If you are too narrow or too fast it seems to get you right back in the game.

I think it is important to anyone reading “Hip drop” that they understand more about it before trying it. If someone reads the term and simply sits down on the back of the ski, they would not like the results. I believe it has to be initiated sooner than some might think in order to get you moving in the direction you want to go and NOT on the back of the ski. It is almost like trying to sit in a chair forward and to the side of where you are.

I will take Ed’s suggestion and start a new thread and let Ed and AB start it off with a detailed explanation.


Click to jump to new thread on hip dropping.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6934

  • AB
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Last pic for your psych up for attacking.. LFF s good as it gets!


rodgerslean.jpg

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6944

  • BudDavis
  • OFFLINE
  • Today is a gift, so ski. No promise of more.
Looks like Mapple's site. Who is skiing?

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6945

I say Jeff Rodgers.
Goode XT - 65.25" with Wiley double high wraps
2009 Malibu Response LX with Zero Off Rev R - Setting C2

Ranked in the top 50 for US Open Men's slalom

My skiing is like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gonna get.

Re: 39.5off for the third time. (Video) 3 years ago #6946

  • AB
  • OFFLINE
JR is correct
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